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since we have this is awesome we have

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Travis Walton just walked in and so we

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have look at this nice full panel and

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I've got I'm gonna take a little bit of

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a video that will be up on the website

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so you can see everyone here if you

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don't mind I'm going to pass this over

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for a minute to the mic if you wouldn't

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mind passing that over to Kathleen

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Martin in to say hi hi Kathleen hello

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and it was so nice to see you it I seem

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to run into you all the time yeah so

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what's going on with you it sounded to

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me today when we talked briefly that

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your title changed a little bit for

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MUFON or is it basically the same we

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decided to change the title from the

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abduction research team to be experience

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or research team the reason for that is

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that I had a lot of complaints over a

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number of years about the word abduction

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because it implied that it was a

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negative experience and some people are

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saying well I don't view my experience

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as being negative and you know other

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people tried to convince me to use the

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word contact or contact D but to me that

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implies a positive experience going back

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to the 50s contactees so john mack came

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up with the term experience or it seems

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to be more of a generic term that

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applies to anyone who has believes that

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had this kind of experience so we went

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with the word experience ER so I hope

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it's all semantics I'm happy but I have

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already received a complaint saying why

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why do you want to blur the lines here

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why don't we call it abduction

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you can't make everybody happy it's like

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the UAP and UFO and you know I mean

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there's yeah is that I'm trying to think

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ooh it is a Richard Haines that doesn't

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like to use the word UFO just like it's

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a bad thing you know and it can be you

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know conjured as a bad thing because of

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you know the way a lot of society looks

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at it so there was one other thing you

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and I were talking about so you're

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getting contacted sort of organically

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people are reaching out to you from all

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over you said from Italy Poland places

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like that so how does that happen they

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just find you on the internet and

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oftentimes they find me on the Internet

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they've maybe heard me on a radio show

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or also MUFON is expanding quite a lot

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now around the world and I'm mu fons

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international and national as well

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director of experience or research so

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they might have heard my name through

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MUFON as well uh-huh okay now we're

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gonna say hi to Stanton and I'm just

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hoping the microphone cord reaches over

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there it seems to yeah how you doing

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Stan you look pretty good you look like

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you're in good health these days how you

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feeling yeah I mean so I had a heart

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attack

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lots of I know are you tired of people

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asking you that not really because there

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have been some strange stories out there

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were some people were told that I had

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passed away I heard that yeah I told my

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death are greatly exaggerated as Mark

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Twain said others have had me having

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being in poorly and poor health and so

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forth and you know I had a heart attack

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I had two stents put in I spent a few

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days in the hospital being bored stiff

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yeah and that was it and I've gone about

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my life and I've driven and lectured and

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and flown and and you're glad to get out

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of where you're living right now with

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this snow aren't you yeah if I had a

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choice of places to be I'd much rather

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be here than in Fredericton where it was

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ten below the other day and where

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there's four feet of snow on the front

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lawn

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yeah I'd say lon boots yeah it can't say

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anything green yeah yeah yeah so uh I'm

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here I've got a talk in San Diego next

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week - oh really so you're staying here

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and then drop you're going over to San

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Diego or yes all right at home until

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next a week from Thursday so you're a

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smart man Stan well yeah it arranged

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everything of course just happened that

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way yeah yeah perfect so how do you

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think this this seems like it's it's a

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great conference how do you think it's

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going well I haven't had much chance to

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see how it oh that's right you can in

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the vendor room man in the vendor room

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and people want to talk to me and they

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all want to ask me how I am and yeah I

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get a lot of thank-yous for all I've

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contributed which just reflects how old

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I am

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how long I've been around yeah so I

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haven't really heard any of the speakers

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yet there is one event there two events

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I have to participate in one is that I

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will be in the last panel on Sunday the

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last event of the conference as a

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invited guest and it's talking about Oh

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whistle blowers hmm and a little

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concerned are one of the people on the

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panel is Pocklington I think that's his

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name

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who did mirage men read his book and I

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watched the movie and I think he's all

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wrong when it comes to the abduction for

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the hundred and all this stuff that he's

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saying government intelligence agencies

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are creating all this stuff as mythology

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but he's got so many mistakes so many

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factual errors and so many things he's

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ignored for example he blames Roswell on

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the Aztec story which makes no sense at

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all hmm and he hasn't done his homework

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so that's one event it'll be interesting

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for me the other term apart well we'll

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see the other is that George Knapp is

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giving a talk and then afterward he's

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interviewing Bob Lazar on stage right

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and we know about yeah I remember you

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and I talking about you doing the

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research on on his schooling background

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well not only is well primarily is

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schooling background yes and I found it

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wasn't telling the truth uh I talked to

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his high school for goodness sakes he

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was in the bottom third of his high

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school class and you don't get into MIT

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with that no but I talked to five

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different people at MIT and none of them

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ever heard of him and I talked to legal

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counsel is that there's no way to erase

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his records once you're in the system

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you're in the system and of course MIT

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was doing classified research back in

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the 40s so it's not just you know it has

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to do with the government kind of thing

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they're pretty independent group at MIT

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now let me ask you something Stan are

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you actually going to ask I know that's

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why I'm going there to see what they'll

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let me say yeah I have take your heart

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medicine first just just to say what

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take your heart medicine first just in

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case you know look I tried to meet with

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Bob back 25 years ago I was here when in

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Las Vegas when George originally talked

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about the story and because I'm a

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nuclear physicist and I was being asked

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about this young nuclear physicist I

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figured I ought to check things out

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because I don't want to reflect badly on

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the trade so to speak and that's when I

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kept coming up- and so I have trouble

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believing what somebody says if he can't

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believe what he says about himself why

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should I believe anything else there's

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no doubt bob is a bright young anymore

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neither mind guy but is he telling the

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truth that's what it's kind of you know

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and and what I do for work is fine arts

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and things like that and it's kind of

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like if there's a fake in the bunch then

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you have to look them all over you know

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I mean you have to carefully examine

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this person knew this person is selling

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a fake then it kind of loses the whole

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you know the whole credibility thing so

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I understand where this is going no I'm

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glad you mentioned that because it's the

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point I've tried to make to people to

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switch the subject over to mj-12 if

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you're going to make a fake a fraud I

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don't know what the right term is these

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days you want to do as little as

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possible

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to call attention to it nothing out of

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the way he's right to the procedures

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that went with the person you're trying

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to emulate or whatever you're doing and

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what I recently did two articles for the

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MUFON Journal is in one list a dozen

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arguments that have been made against

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the mj-12 documents showed that none of

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them stand up they hadn't done their

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homework and the other was there's a

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whole bunch of stuff that we didn't know

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to be true it turned out to be true well

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after we got the documents how did the

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person know psychic faker psychic hoaxer

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what is it just just to give one example

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the date of one of the important items

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is the only date and eight month period

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where President Truman met with James

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Forrestal and Vannevar Bush at the same

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time and the memo is from Truman to

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Forrestal and naming Bush within the

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text and that's the only date in an

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eight month period for those three met

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together and I asked the Truman library

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were there anybody else it arrests the

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question no there are some strange the

220
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date is not continuous on it September

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and then the 24 1915 1947 is an angle to

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it obviously had been in a typewriter

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twice now why would anybody faking a

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document do that you don't want to call

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attention to that mm-hmm and there are a

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number of other items like that and I

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always remember what Budd Hopkins told

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me about artists faking you know oh yeah

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artwork of some known artists they

230
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always want to make it very very similar

231
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a lot of times I'll just for instance

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they'll find a painting that's already

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painted that looks just like an artist's

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work but of course it's not a valuable

235
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artists and then they'll just it

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mysteriously it gets the artists name

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put on it you know so it's along the

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same but you don't do anything to call

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attention right it's it has to be close

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yes - yeah so it's kind of you know

241
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Here I am a physicist getting into

242
00:11:31,810 --> 00:11:29,570
artwork and stuff like that but it's

243
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kind of fun and there's a real challenge

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here I feel that people have a

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responsibility if they're kind of claim

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to be researchers and do their homework

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yeah what one just to pick one thing I

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made a point about dr. Donald Menzel

249
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being a member of this mj-12 group

250
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everybody knew he was a total debunk

251
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re-written three debunking books how

252
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could he know about a crashed saucer

253
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alien bodies etc well I went up I got

254
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from rich from three different people to

255
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see his papers at Harvard people

256
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complain and I found to my total

257
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astonishment because I didn't like them

258
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and he was a lot like you but that that

259
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he told Jack Kennedy he had a longer

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continuous association with the National

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Security Agency and navy intelligence of

262
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anybody in the country nobody knew that

263
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hmm and so how did they know that but

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knowing other people who say he couldn't

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have led a double life and I would point

266
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to some spies who have nicely led double

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life's burgers filthy and McClane and

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England and so forth but they none of

269
00:12:38,590 --> 00:12:35,839
them have gone to Harvard look at the

270
00:12:41,470 --> 00:12:38,600
papers well darn it if you're gonna say

271
00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:41,480
it isn't true check it out you know yeah

272
00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:43,310
just say well I know it can't be so I'm

273
00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:46,310
just gonna say it isn't Travis you've

274
00:12:50,769 --> 00:12:49,310
had the same problem here haven't you

275
00:12:51,970 --> 00:12:50,779
with people making claims where they

276
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:51,980
don't know what the hell yeah you know

277
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,290
that people you know just make something

278
00:12:58,449 --> 00:12:56,720
they can't back it up and you know it's

279
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:58,459
pretty easy to just blow them out of the

280
00:13:02,889 --> 00:13:00,560
water when you produce and you can

281
00:13:05,889 --> 00:13:02,899
direct people to the original source for

282
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:05,899
the you know authentic information yeah

283
00:13:10,079 --> 00:13:08,240
and that's what we have to do we and you

284
00:13:14,019 --> 00:13:10,089
followed you have to police are

285
00:13:16,930 --> 00:13:14,029
sightings if you will by checking out

286
00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:16,940
the facts I found somebody who worked

287
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:18,470
for Troma in the entire time I was at

288
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:20,690
the White House and asked his opinion

289
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:22,310
about the documents after sending them

290
00:13:27,940 --> 00:13:25,010
and stuff like that nobody else it's

291
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:32,019
more than 10 years oh yeah I I I've been

292
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,370
to the presidential libraries and I find

293
00:13:39,090 --> 00:13:36,320
they're very valuable and the people are

294
00:13:41,710 --> 00:13:39,100
very helpful and well as another example

295
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:41,720
every top-secret document has to have a

296
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:43,730
top-secret Control Number I was told by

297
00:13:46,689 --> 00:13:44,690
several people

298
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:46,699
I'd already published a couple that

299
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:48,800
didn't that I know her genuine because

300
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:50,930
they came from the archives so I asked

301
00:13:54,939 --> 00:13:52,310
the archivist oh we have loads of

302
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:54,949
top-secret documents without top-secret

303
00:13:59,620 --> 00:13:57,199
control levers on them but nobody but

304
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,630
other to check that they know because

305
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,519
when they worked at a certain office at

306
00:14:06,340 --> 00:14:04,160
a certain time all our documents had top

307
00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:06,350
secret control over well to generalize

308
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:07,670
that to everybody

309
00:14:14,410 --> 00:14:10,810
is ridiculous are there phony abduction

310
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:14,420
experiencers stories of course does that

311
00:14:20,620 --> 00:14:17,510
mean everybody who claims one is of

312
00:14:22,930 --> 00:14:20,630
course not so there's some rules for the

313
00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:22,940
game they don't seem to be being adhered

314
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:29,870
to by people who attack you're looking

315
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,480
forward to the movie yeah that will be

316
00:14:36,189 --> 00:14:34,880
the first time I've seen it I haven't

317
00:14:38,050 --> 00:14:36,199
seen it yeah I'm supposed to introduce

318
00:14:40,329 --> 00:14:38,060
it but I haven't even seen the trailer

319
00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:40,339
for it yet so I don't know whether to

320
00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:42,769
say rah rah rah this is great or not

321
00:14:47,650 --> 00:14:45,260
I'll know after I watch it went that's

322
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:47,660
Friday night yes Friday Friday night

323
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:50,810
7:00 o'clock yes so Marion I don't know

324
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:55,250
where well you know a lot went into this

325
00:15:00,340 --> 00:14:57,490
production it was quite a bit of

326
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:00,350
in-depth research you know a lot of

327
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:01,910
people that were very hard to get a hold

328
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:05,990
of were interviewed and you know I'm

329
00:15:12,939 --> 00:15:09,730
sure you know there's a pretty wide

330
00:15:15,819 --> 00:15:12,949
comprehensive amount of content there

331
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:15,829
and how it was all edit together and

332
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:17,930
whether it would just be exactly the way

333
00:15:21,970 --> 00:15:19,610
I would do it I'm you know I'm waiting

334
00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:21,980
to see but I'm looking forward to it

335
00:15:26,009 --> 00:15:24,350
because I think they're gonna use a few

336
00:15:28,090 --> 00:15:26,019
minutes from my movie UFOs are real

337
00:15:30,879 --> 00:15:28,100
because I interviewed him back when he

338
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:30,889
was a young man I was younger to Stan

339
00:15:35,949 --> 00:15:33,410
Feynman was one of the first researchers

340
00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:35,959
to actually visit the area and the site

341
00:15:43,079 --> 00:15:39,470
and talk to the people he does his

342
00:15:49,259 --> 00:15:46,210
Travis on and them in the movie fire in

343
00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:49,269
the sky for instance there is a

344
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:52,640
ufologist that you know I don't even

345
00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:54,170
know if that any of this is accurate but

346
00:15:59,230 --> 00:15:56,089
there's a ufologist that is like waiting

347
00:16:04,000 --> 00:15:59,240
to see you and puts a lot of pressure on

348
00:16:05,380 --> 00:16:04,010
you or and it was that real and if so do

349
00:16:09,940 --> 00:16:05,390
you want to talk about who that was and

350
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,950
her well that scene doesn't depict a

351
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:11,839
particular incident that actually

352
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:13,910
occurred but there was quite a bit of

353
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:16,959
back and forth between the various

354
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:19,490
organizations some of which don't exist

355
00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:25,310
anymore but I in my mind I associate

356
00:16:29,769 --> 00:16:27,550
that scene mostly with a now-defunct

357
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:29,779
organization called ground saucer watch

358
00:16:35,410 --> 00:16:32,720
that all of the people in there with a

359
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:35,420
little research uncovered that they had

360
00:16:42,220 --> 00:16:37,970
to put it mildly exaggerated their

361
00:16:44,199 --> 00:16:42,230
credentials yeah well that's true and I

362
00:16:45,699 --> 00:16:44,209
checked on one of them who claimed a

363
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:45,709
degree from a certain school and he

364
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:48,170
didn't have one I'm fond of checking on

365
00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:49,910
people that strike me as not telling the

366
00:16:55,150 --> 00:16:53,140
truth about their academic background

367
00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:55,160
that's one of the things that'll come up

368
00:16:59,470 --> 00:16:57,230
about Lazar I hope I get a chance to

369
00:17:01,329 --> 00:16:59,480
express my I hope you do too and

370
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:01,339
unfortunately I won't be here just

371
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:03,500
actually see that but I know they'll

372
00:17:08,679 --> 00:17:05,329
have the DVD and you know they'll be

373
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:08,689
recording it but yeah I would I don't

374
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:11,870
have it I think Bob Lazar is very bright

375
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:14,329
yeah person it's like you say and

376
00:17:20,530 --> 00:17:17,600
everything I mean he's sharp the story

377
00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:20,540
is a little you know I mean it'll be

378
00:17:25,449 --> 00:17:23,030
interesting to hear you know what he has

379
00:17:28,299 --> 00:17:25,459
to say after all this time and and I

380
00:17:30,909 --> 00:17:28,309
think you know that the question and

381
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:30,919
answer part is going to be the you know

382
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:32,240
the cream of the crop right you're sure

383
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:34,190
they're gonna have one I would think so

384
00:17:37,930 --> 00:17:37,250
I mean they're supposed to have one okay

385
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:37,940
yeah yeah

386
00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:40,250
can stand can you go into a little more

387
00:17:44,980 --> 00:17:42,950
about when you research Travis's case

388
00:17:48,669 --> 00:17:44,990
since it was so early on I just I just

389
00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:48,679
never heard that before well of course

390
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:50,870
I'd heard the noise and I talked to the

391
00:17:53,650 --> 00:17:52,910
people at a pro which doesn't exist

392
00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:53,660
anymore

393
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,020
choral and Jim Lorenzen to get their

394
00:18:01,690 --> 00:17:59,600
findings and I also talked to Jim harder

395
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:01,700
dr. James harder from University of

396
00:18:06,550 --> 00:18:04,880
California Berkeley who did the was that

397
00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:06,560
the only hypnosis yes that's the only

398
00:18:13,330 --> 00:18:10,040
hypnosis yeah and I I've known Jim

399
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:13,340
harder and for quite a long time he's

400
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:18,730
gone too now as a matter of fact and so

401
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:22,910
after talking to the people we were I

402
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:24,710
was working on the movie UFOs are real

403
00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:28,880
and I wanted to use this as one of the

404
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:31,670
cases we traveled across the country we

405
00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:34,270
talked to harder and Berkeley going up

406
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:36,500
there's a way to get up to his house in

407
00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:38,360
the Berkeley Hills on that sort of a

408
00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:41,900
tram like just kind of different we

409
00:18:49,570 --> 00:18:44,360
talked to Betty Hill talked to Jesse

410
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:49,580
Marcel found in Louisiana talked to

411
00:18:56,530 --> 00:18:52,730
several other prominent Marjorie fish

412
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:56,540
with the video star map dr. George

413
00:19:02,410 --> 00:18:59,600
Mitchell our heard dr. Mitchell anyway

414
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:02,420
of the Ohio State University Astronomy

415
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:04,400
Department who had some strong things to

416
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:05,930
say about the accuracy of Marjorie's

417
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:10,310
work and so we went to people who were

418
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:14,450
directly involved in cases and Travis's

419
00:19:18,970 --> 00:19:17,570
case was was good because there were

420
00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:18,980
several people involved we talked to

421
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:23,030
Mike Rogers too and because we went out

422
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:25,370
to the actual location so used to could

423
00:19:30,850 --> 00:19:28,570
get a feeling for what the area was like

424
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:30,860
that part of Arizona is a little bit

425
00:19:35,860 --> 00:19:32,690
different from New England for example

426
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:35,870
you know or from Ohio or we were in

427
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:38,870
other places like that so I was very

428
00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:41,330
favorably impressed with Travis it took

429
00:19:45,310 --> 00:19:42,590
us a while to get there of course

430
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,320
because snow flake is not really near

431
00:19:54,670 --> 00:19:48,080
any large I think it's quite a ways out

432
00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:54,680
of the way yes and we I was all of us

433
00:19:58,690 --> 00:19:56,150
there's only a small group of us making

434
00:20:00,880 --> 00:19:58,700
the movie but well you were quite

435
00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:00,890
impressed with Travis and with Mike and

436
00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:03,020
with the circumstances and as I've tried

437
00:20:07,630 --> 00:20:05,540
to tell people if you go to a small town

438
00:20:11,289 --> 00:20:07,640
and a guy is

439
00:20:14,169 --> 00:20:11,299
know you get a reputation everybody in

440
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,179
town knows you you can't hide they'll

441
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:17,120
say oh he's a liar or you know he makes

442
00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:19,370
up stories all the time and so forth and

443
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:21,260
it's a little bit of that in Roswell so

444
00:20:29,530 --> 00:20:25,970
that you get a reputation and we asked

445
00:20:34,410 --> 00:20:29,540
around in snowflake we visited Travis at

446
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:34,420
his home I met his family and I would

447
00:20:37,870 --> 00:20:36,530
Travis won't mind my saying this I was

448
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:37,880
impressed by the fact that he delivered

449
00:20:44,740 --> 00:20:41,570
his own children having been present at

450
00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:44,750
the birth of my daughter I that made a

451
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:50,270
very favorable impression on me and it

452
00:20:57,220 --> 00:20:54,130
takes somebody with a certain kind of

453
00:21:00,220 --> 00:20:57,230
devotion to doing the right thing that's

454
00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:00,230
an awkward way of saying that but who

455
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:04,070
can be trusted with significant events

456
00:21:10,450 --> 00:21:06,640
in the birth of a child several of them

457
00:21:11,409 --> 00:21:10,460
it's certainly a significant event and I

458
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:11,419
don't think I've ever said that the

459
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:13,130
Travis before but I was impressed by the

460
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:15,290
fact that you had delivered your kids

461
00:21:21,789 --> 00:21:18,080
well thank you and you know I contrast

462
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:21,799
your hands-on in person investigation

463
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:25,130
with that of my critics none of them had

464
00:21:29,890 --> 00:21:28,010
ever spoken to me visited the site or in

465
00:21:34,150 --> 00:21:29,900
any way have done any sort of in-person

466
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:34,160
on hands-on research so there are

467
00:21:49,539 --> 00:21:46,150
Kathy could you tell us did Betty Betty

468
00:21:52,060 --> 00:21:49,549
Hill ever look in or talk about Travis

469
00:21:55,260 --> 00:21:52,070
Walton or did that ever come up do you

470
00:21:59,460 --> 00:21:55,270
know yes absolutely

471
00:22:03,850 --> 00:21:59,470
betty was asked to speak with Travis

472
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:03,860
after this happened Jim harder dr. James

473
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:09,200
harder was active in in in Betty's case

474
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:12,530
and also a friend of Betty by the time I

475
00:22:21,169 --> 00:22:18,770
met him and Jim was talking about his

476
00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:21,179
investigation of Travis's

477
00:22:26,029 --> 00:22:22,950
and I happened to be at Betty's home

478
00:22:29,149 --> 00:22:26,039
when this was going on Betty had already

479
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:29,159
spoken to Travis and the concern was

480
00:22:34,450 --> 00:22:31,440
that Betty had had this experience

481
00:22:37,399 --> 00:22:34,460
herself she was also a social worker and

482
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:37,409
we knew that that Travis was quite

483
00:22:43,899 --> 00:22:41,039
shaken by this event and so Betty was

484
00:22:47,869 --> 00:22:43,909
asked to speak with Travis in order to

485
00:22:50,269 --> 00:22:47,879
try to calm him down so that he'd have

486
00:22:52,969 --> 00:22:50,279
the opportunity to speak with someone

487
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:52,979
who understood what he was going through

488
00:22:59,299 --> 00:22:55,559
who had been through the same kind of

489
00:23:01,999 --> 00:22:59,309
experience himself and the conversation

490
00:23:10,190 --> 00:23:02,009
was quite effective to that end she had

491
00:23:11,989 --> 00:23:10,200
some good advice I have quite a lot of

492
00:23:14,899 --> 00:23:11,999
correspondence from her over the years

493
00:23:19,099 --> 00:23:14,909
that I want to go back and and look at

494
00:23:23,509 --> 00:23:19,109
with fresh eyes and I have to tell you

495
00:23:25,129 --> 00:23:23,519
that Betty did not believe that everyone

496
00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:25,139
who thought they had been abducted

497
00:23:32,169 --> 00:23:29,190
actually had been but she really did

498
00:23:35,239 --> 00:23:32,179
believe that Travis's event was real and

499
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:35,249
that he was the real thing

500
00:23:41,779 --> 00:23:38,609
Jim harder talked about how traumatized

501
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:41,789
Travis was by the event and told us

502
00:23:46,849 --> 00:23:44,369
about his hypnosis session with Travis

503
00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:46,859
when it was at Betty's home I see that's

504
00:23:53,690 --> 00:23:50,190
interesting about Betty I never knew

505
00:23:55,249 --> 00:23:53,700
that she had some skepticism for other

506
00:24:00,259 --> 00:23:55,259
abductions that's almost gives her a

507
00:24:03,019 --> 00:24:00,269
little more credibility of herself you

508
00:24:06,109 --> 00:24:03,029
may not know too that Betty was actually

509
00:24:11,229 --> 00:24:06,119
an investigator for the aerial phenomena

510
00:24:15,159 --> 00:24:11,239
research research organization afro

511
00:24:18,289 --> 00:24:15,169
after her experience and she

512
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:18,299
investigated other abductions herself

513
00:24:21,859 --> 00:24:19,320
Wow

514
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:21,869
while I have you here I was at a

515
00:24:27,139 --> 00:24:24,690
conference when someone like took me to

516
00:24:28,999 --> 00:24:27,149
the side and was talking to me and they

517
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:29,009
said you know that Betty and Barney Hill

518
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:33,490
is you know a bunk don't you and I said

519
00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:35,770
mmm what do you have to say you know

520
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:37,300
they said well there was a light on

521
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:41,530
Cannon Mountain that went up in 1959 or

522
00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:42,850
something like that and if you drive

523
00:24:47,130 --> 00:24:45,460
along it looks like a craft you know

524
00:24:48,419 --> 00:24:47,140
being up in the mountain and then

525
00:24:50,970 --> 00:24:48,429
there's a jack-o'-lantern where a

526
00:24:52,890 --> 00:24:50,980
restaurant that has a jack-o'-lantern

527
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:52,900
that could look like a flying saucer

528
00:24:58,500 --> 00:24:56,110
landed what about all that I mean did

529
00:25:00,480 --> 00:24:58,510
did she hear that in her lifetime or was

530
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:00,490
she confronted with that not in her

531
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:03,010
lifetime but I have heard it and I have

532
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:04,770
read it and I've actually even

533
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:08,559
investigated it because of course the

534
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:10,890
light that was on top of Cannon Mountain

535
00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:14,559
was smaller in 1961 than it is today

536
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:17,820
it's been replaced but the new

537
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:20,710
investigator who has been trying to

538
00:25:25,710 --> 00:25:23,260
debunk all of this claimed that he went

539
00:25:28,350 --> 00:25:25,720
to the Mount Cleveland picnic area and

540
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:28,360
from the Mount Cleveland picnic area he

541
00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:30,850
could see that light on top of Cannon

542
00:25:35,130 --> 00:25:32,950
Mountain so I went to the Mount

543
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:35,140
Cleveland picnic area and looked for the

544
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:38,200
light at night couldn't find it couldn't

545
00:25:44,490 --> 00:25:41,470
see it but I did as I was driving toward

546
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:44,500
Franconia Notch go to the top of a hill

547
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:47,470
and was able to see it very briefly from

548
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:49,870
the top of the hill now you have to also

549
00:25:56,130 --> 00:25:53,050
remember that the close encounter field

550
00:25:58,860 --> 00:25:56,140
was eight miles south of Cannon Mountain

551
00:26:00,960 --> 00:25:58,870
and you could not see the light at the

552
00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:00,970
top of Cannon Mountain from eight miles

553
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:03,820
self and that's where the craft hovered

554
00:26:11,370 --> 00:26:06,790
only a hundred feet above the hills car

555
00:26:16,350 --> 00:26:11,380
and then the abduction site was about

556
00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:16,360
eight miles south of there I see what

557
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:18,670
would you I'm gonna ask this of you

558
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:22,450
Travis as well I consider you know

559
00:26:27,030 --> 00:26:24,850
Travis is one of the big case I also

560
00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:27,040
think the allagash case is pretty

561
00:26:33,270 --> 00:26:30,840
amazing if there's some other like

562
00:26:36,150 --> 00:26:33,280
abductions I know there's a lot of

563
00:26:39,870 --> 00:26:36,160
people that you know you're involved

564
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:39,880
with the Free thing that we can talk a

565
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:43,690
little bit about that but the ones that

566
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:47,290
I guess that I'm interested in right now

567
00:26:51,810 --> 00:26:49,570
as the case is like Travis Walton and

568
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:51,820
Betty and and like that is there any

569
00:26:58,050 --> 00:26:54,610
other cases and in the allagash that you

570
00:27:00,300 --> 00:26:58,060
can think of that really hit like the

571
00:27:03,660 --> 00:27:00,310
witnesses type of thing you know I mean

572
00:27:06,090 --> 00:27:03,670
real real solid or is it is it all you

573
00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:06,100
know very hard to to put a finger on

574
00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:10,060
whether it one of my favorite cases is

575
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:14,470
from Casey County Kentucky cases of

576
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:19,810
mones Stafford Yvonne's oh no not a

577
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:23,440
button Smith Louise Smith and Elaine

578
00:27:35,850 --> 00:27:29,820
Thomas and this occurred in January of

579
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:35,860
1976 and it was a really good case in my

580
00:27:42,210 --> 00:27:40,000
opinion the three women knew each other

581
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,220
- knew each other well another one

582
00:27:47,730 --> 00:27:45,520
casually they had just gotten together

583
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:47,740
for an impromptu dinner it was one's

584
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:52,390
birthday and they had driven about I

585
00:27:58,860 --> 00:27:54,250
think it was about 30 miles to a

586
00:28:01,080 --> 00:27:58,870
restaurant and had dinner there did not

587
00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:01,090
have any alcoholic beverages they were

588
00:28:05,310 --> 00:28:03,220
all interested in art they they had a

589
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:05,320
good time they turned around and they

590
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:08,920
were driving back home that night and on

591
00:28:14,220 --> 00:28:11,200
the way home they had a close encounter

592
00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:14,230
with a craft that came down very low

593
00:28:19,410 --> 00:28:17,380
over the top of their car there was a

594
00:28:21,810 --> 00:28:19,420
beam of light that went into the car

595
00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:21,820
that caused all of them to feel very

596
00:28:30,690 --> 00:28:26,260
very warm suddenly the car started

597
00:28:33,270 --> 00:28:30,700
moving on its own the the women tried to

598
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:33,280
stop it couldn't at about 80 miles an

599
00:28:39,270 --> 00:28:37,570
hour and then all of a sudden stopped

600
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:39,280
and it was being pulled back in the

601
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:41,650
opposite direction almost as if they

602
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:45,010
were bumping backwards over some kind of

603
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:48,130
very strange highway and you know you

604
00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:52,120
think of the the aahs factor well this

605
00:28:59,610 --> 00:28:56,470
is just really very very strange and the

606
00:29:00,840 --> 00:28:59,620
next thing they know they're back and

607
00:29:04,830 --> 00:29:00,850
they're just outside

608
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:04,840
the town that they live in and they

609
00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:07,570
realize that they're missing about an

610
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:09,940
hour and forty-five minutes that they

611
00:29:18,390 --> 00:29:14,530
can't account for they go into one of

612
00:29:22,050 --> 00:29:18,400
the women's homes and try to decide what

613
00:29:24,450 --> 00:29:22,060
to do and so they decide that they

614
00:29:26,490 --> 00:29:24,460
should go tell a neighbor and the

615
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,500
neighbor has them sit down and sketch

616
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:29,440
what they saw they all drew similar

617
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:32,310
sketches and so this was a fairly big

618
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:35,770
case at that time they didn't want to go

619
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:39,370
public with it it they ended up going

620
00:29:45,630 --> 00:29:42,310
public because it was leaked out to a

621
00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:45,640
newspaper and then some of the major

622
00:29:52,110 --> 00:29:49,270
organizations went in to investigate and

623
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:52,120
Leo sprinkle dr. Leo sprinkle went in

624
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:55,270
there and did hypnosis sessions with the

625
00:29:59,700 --> 00:29:57,970
women but it was a very very interesting

626
00:30:03,390 --> 00:29:59,710
case they remembered that they were

627
00:30:06,570 --> 00:30:03,400
taken on board a craft and that these

628
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:06,580
ETS were very interested for example in

629
00:30:13,020 --> 00:30:11,050
the way their joints moved and it

630
00:30:14,490 --> 00:30:13,030
reminded me of Betty and Barney in a way

631
00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:14,500
because they were very interested in

632
00:30:18,930 --> 00:30:16,390
Betty's and Barney's skeletal structure

633
00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:18,940
and also that moved their fingers their

634
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:22,030
you know their arms their legs and that

635
00:30:28,050 --> 00:30:25,210
sort of thing but one of the women had a

636
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:28,060
really almost horrifying experience to

637
00:30:32,910 --> 00:30:30,490
where she felt that there was a lot of

638
00:30:35,850 --> 00:30:32,920
pressure on her head and that was very

639
00:30:38,910 --> 00:30:35,860
painful to her all three women ended up

640
00:30:40,670 --> 00:30:38,920
being traumatized yeah by the experience

641
00:30:41,910 --> 00:30:40,680
it had a major impact on their lives

642
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:41,920
mm-hmm

643
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:44,530
Travis are gonna ask you a different

644
00:30:52,350 --> 00:30:47,250
question than that basically you know

645
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:52,360
Betty reached out to you and it was

646
00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:54,730
probably very helpful for you at the

647
00:30:59,790 --> 00:30:56,100
time for what you were going through

648
00:31:01,740 --> 00:30:59,800
have you ever had the opportunity to be

649
00:31:07,770 --> 00:31:01,750
able to help someone in the same type of

650
00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:07,780
way oh yeah I get lots of you know

651
00:31:13,210 --> 00:31:10,870
enquiries of that nature all the time

652
00:31:15,730 --> 00:31:13,220
you know people that

653
00:31:17,980 --> 00:31:15,740
I've experienced something ask me what

654
00:31:19,420 --> 00:31:17,990
they should do or they think they might

655
00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:19,430
have experienced something what should

656
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:21,320
they do you know it happens all the time

657
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:26,690
but I do my best but I often turn it

658
00:31:32,650 --> 00:31:28,250
over to people who are better qualified

659
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:32,660
than I so so you ask them or you give

660
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:35,050
them information of an organization or

661
00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:37,970
something like that yeah now I'm going

662
00:31:44,410 --> 00:31:40,430
to throw a question at you and just

663
00:31:46,510 --> 00:31:44,420
Linda in this research thank you

664
00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:46,520
this research that you were have been

665
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:49,180
doing there kind of focusing in New York

666
00:31:56,050 --> 00:31:53,120
any abductions in that any abductions

667
00:31:58,180 --> 00:31:56,060
come to mind i when I first started this

668
00:32:00,040 --> 00:31:58,190
research I thought honestly I was going

669
00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:00,050
to talk to a lot of people who saw

670
00:32:05,290 --> 00:32:03,320
lights in the sky and the first

671
00:32:08,980 --> 00:32:05,300
interview I conducted was with a

672
00:32:13,630 --> 00:32:08,990
multi-generational abduction experience

673
00:32:17,650 --> 00:32:13,640
family blew my doors off right off the

674
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:17,660
bat and I found that more often than not

675
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:22,910
people had Intel I will call it intense

676
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:25,010
experiences because they're not quite

677
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:27,350
sure what happened at the very least

678
00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:31,730
missing time many cases clear symptoms

679
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:34,940
of abductions I actually started calling

680
00:32:42,550 --> 00:32:36,890
the Hudson Valley abduction alley

681
00:32:45,340 --> 00:32:42,560
because it has happened so often to so

682
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:45,350
many people going back as far as I can

683
00:32:56,290 --> 00:32:51,130
tell to 1929 was the first case and

684
00:33:01,270 --> 00:32:56,300
they're they're very unnerving the the

685
00:33:04,150 --> 00:33:01,280
cases of people being physically tested

686
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:04,160
they may not recall the actual testing

687
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:07,850
but they have scoop marks and the bloody

688
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:11,330
noses and pieces missing and sudden

689
00:33:17,050 --> 00:33:14,690
phobias and all I guess what we would

690
00:33:19,270 --> 00:33:17,060
call the the classic symptoms of having

691
00:33:23,620 --> 00:33:19,280
been taken and something happened on

692
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:23,630
them it's one case in particular I

693
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:26,370
thought was quite remarkable was a

694
00:33:31,010 --> 00:33:28,290
I spoke about today was a little girl

695
00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:31,020
playing in her sandbox and she said

696
00:33:36,770 --> 00:33:33,390
suddenly everything just seemed to

697
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:36,780
freeze time just Stood Still she could

698
00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:39,480
see her mother in the kitchen window not

699
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:41,640
moving absolutely motionless

700
00:33:46,990 --> 00:33:44,610
a moment later she's on some sort of

701
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:47,000
examining table and she's hearing

702
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:51,570
whoever these beings are saying we can't

703
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:54,090
keep her we have to send her back she's

704
00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:57,330
damaged she couldn't understand what

705
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,980
that meant next thing she knows she's

706
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:00,960
back in her sandbox it wasn't until

707
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:05,130
years later she found out as a as a baby

708
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:08,730
as a young child she had some sort of

709
00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:11,250
defect that she had to have surgery and

710
00:34:18,020 --> 00:34:14,220
a drain put in her brain which was still

711
00:34:21,879 --> 00:34:18,030
there and so perhaps in that regard she

712
00:34:24,889 --> 00:34:21,889
was damaged and not fit for whatever

713
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:24,899
purpose they had for her Wow

714
00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:30,960
wow that's amazing Kathy a question I

715
00:34:37,149 --> 00:34:33,350
believe it may have been actually our

716
00:34:39,470 --> 00:34:37,159
single person audience out there George

717
00:34:43,010 --> 00:34:39,480
it may have been you are speaking to

718
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:43,020
today about the French is he talking

719
00:34:52,490 --> 00:34:46,560
about the French oh sorry we're talking

720
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:52,500
about abductions in in not not so much

721
00:35:00,830 --> 00:34:56,970
heard of in places like France or say I

722
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:00,840
spoke with class one of Sweden and he's

723
00:35:05,210 --> 00:35:02,370
saying you know one or two about from

724
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:05,220
cases that's all he has come across his

725
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:08,850
desk every you know every year or so and

726
00:35:14,420 --> 00:35:11,520
a person I was speaking to today said

727
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,430
the reason that people come forward

728
00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:16,800
about abductions here is because it's

729
00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:19,110
talked about Jacobs has talked about it

730
00:35:22,850 --> 00:35:21,390
he's been on TV and people actually come

731
00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:22,860
forward what's your opinion do you think

732
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,390
that these things are happening

733
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:26,640
worldwide it's just that it's not so

734
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:29,250
publicly known so people are afraid to

735
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:32,370
come forward or don't understand what's

736
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:34,740
happening or or what's your opinion on

737
00:35:41,299 --> 00:35:38,730
that my opinion is that

738
00:35:43,940 --> 00:35:41,309
in the United States if you have this

739
00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:43,950
kind of experience there are a lot of

740
00:35:51,740 --> 00:35:46,980
groups that you can come forward and you

741
00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:51,750
can speak to and oftentimes you'll have

742
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:54,510
a non-judgmental listener who will

743
00:35:58,609 --> 00:35:55,920
listen to you if you want an

744
00:36:03,500 --> 00:35:58,619
investigation you can get that to they

745
00:36:06,980 --> 00:36:03,510
simply don't have that kind of thing on

746
00:36:10,339 --> 00:36:06,990
a wide scale in Europe I have people

747
00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:10,349
from Europe who contact me and tell me

748
00:36:15,010 --> 00:36:13,230
about their experiences and so they're

749
00:36:19,609 --> 00:36:15,020
going to people in the United States

750
00:36:23,390 --> 00:36:19,619
that may be changing because the mutual

751
00:36:26,809 --> 00:36:23,400
UFO network is expanding and there are

752
00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:26,819
chapters in many countries around the

753
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:29,460
world now they're still very small and

754
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:31,440
you know they've just formed and they're

755
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:34,619
in the process of growing but in

756
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:39,089
Australia for example MUFON now has an

757
00:36:45,859 --> 00:36:42,900
abduction research team who and that is

758
00:36:49,819 --> 00:36:45,869
connected to our the one in the United

759
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,829
States as well and you know as it

760
00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:52,079
expands there will be more opportunity

761
00:36:57,890 --> 00:36:55,140
for people to report these sorts of

762
00:37:00,859 --> 00:36:57,900
things as well but for the most part

763
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:00,869
they're there they're making the reports

764
00:37:06,049 --> 00:37:02,970
but they're making them to us and and

765
00:37:08,539 --> 00:37:06,059
not on as wide a scale as we're

766
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:08,549
receiving them from people in the United

767
00:37:16,789 --> 00:37:09,119
States

768
00:37:18,799 --> 00:37:16,799
I see Stan you you talk a lot about you

769
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:18,809
know the flying saucers and UFOs and

770
00:37:23,180 --> 00:37:21,210
stuff like that you don't hear you

771
00:37:27,740 --> 00:37:23,190
talking a whole lot about abductions I

772
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:27,750
mean a little bit you do and the thought

773
00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:30,690
just came to me in your field or

774
00:37:35,839 --> 00:37:31,940
whatever have you been ridiculed

775
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:35,849
yourself from when people say oh you

776
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:37,410
know you're a scientists and you're

777
00:37:41,710 --> 00:37:38,970
talking about UFOs so do they give you

778
00:37:45,289 --> 00:37:41,720
trouble about that and and what about

779
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:45,299
abductions okay about abductions as you

780
00:37:50,450 --> 00:37:47,790
know I'm listed as a co-author with

781
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:50,460
Kathy on the book I captured mm-hmm the

782
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:52,290
Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience

783
00:37:57,170 --> 00:37:55,110
85% of work so I'm listed is the way I

784
00:37:59,720 --> 00:37:57,180
put it I wrote the chapter I was the

785
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,730
first to publish about the starmap work

786
00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:02,400
Marjorie fishes were which i think is

787
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:04,920
very important order and I was just

788
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:06,210
reading a lot of the people who's going

789
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:08,640
to be presenting here said Marjorie

790
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:11,730
built a model of the local neighborhood

791
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:14,790
she built more than 20 models of the

792
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:17,430
local neighborhood with stars getting

793
00:38:21,620 --> 00:38:19,650
rid of stars as people were saying that

794
00:38:25,010 --> 00:38:21,630
kind of star won't have planets and so

795
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:25,020
forth and so on not based on her whimsy

796
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:28,320
but on what the scientific community was

797
00:38:34,340 --> 00:38:31,980
saying and so I think she did a splendid

798
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:34,350
job and I was glad that afro which we've

799
00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:37,170
mentioned before contacted me to see if

800
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:39,270
I would help Marjorie who wanted to talk

801
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:42,930
to a scientist and they had a back row

802
00:38:49,790 --> 00:38:45,630
know she can trust me Cora Lorenson you

803
00:38:52,130 --> 00:38:49,800
know and I met with Marjorie and went

804
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:52,140
with her to Chicago I talked to dr. J

805
00:38:56,810 --> 00:38:54,060
Allen Hynek there and and so forth and

806
00:38:59,590 --> 00:38:56,820
she's in the movie so I'm interested in

807
00:39:02,510 --> 00:38:59,600
abductions and if I can provide

808
00:39:04,610 --> 00:39:02,520
something useful I will try to do it I

809
00:39:07,460 --> 00:39:04,620
don't consider myself basically an

810
00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:07,470
abduction researcher I'll tell you I

811
00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:10,140
took a course in hypnosis hoping to help

812
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:11,790
my son with his hemophilia that

813
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:15,270
controlled bleeding and because it's

814
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:17,250
been used for that purpose hypnosis has

815
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:21,830
but during one of the sessions the

816
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:25,290
instructor took a woman back regressed

817
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:30,690
her she was maybe 30 to 20 15 10 down to

818
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:33,210
her eighth birthday thinking that would

819
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:35,610
be a safe time to talk about and her

820
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:37,530
voice was changing as she went back in

821
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:40,500
these age changes you know and as soon

822
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:42,450
as it was her eighth birthday she burst

823
00:39:48,890 --> 00:39:46,650
into tears a strong emotional reaction

824
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:48,900
turned out her father had died on a race

825
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:51,810
birthday and I was so glad that that

826
00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:54,210
Professor was there a teacher of the

827
00:40:00,200 --> 00:39:57,900
class to calm her down keep things under

828
00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:00,210
control because I recognize this is

829
00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:02,070
something you better have somebody who's

830
00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:04,990
very sharp involved with

831
00:40:11,010 --> 00:40:08,380
and the beauty of the hill story is dr.

832
00:40:14,490 --> 00:40:11,020
Benjamin Simon on I didn't know anything

833
00:40:16,859 --> 00:40:14,500
about flying saucers but he know a great

834
00:40:21,329 --> 00:40:16,869
deal about post-traumatic stress

835
00:40:25,410 --> 00:40:21,339
disorder and he ran a hospital for three

836
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:25,420
thousand a military hospital after World

837
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:29,200
War two three thousand beds for people

838
00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:31,540
who came back with what today it was

839
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:33,670
shell-shocked back then but what we do

840
00:40:39,299 --> 00:40:37,210
today would call PTSD and so I was very

841
00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:39,309
impressed with dr. Simon's saying in

842
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:42,550
writing that the emotional intensity as

843
00:40:47,130 --> 00:40:44,530
they relive their experience was every

844
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:47,140
bit as powerful as that of the veterans

845
00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:49,089
that he had worked with you know your

846
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:50,740
buddy's head gets blown off next to you

847
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:52,930
that's a little hard to reintegrate that

848
00:40:59,520 --> 00:40:57,130
kind of thing and so it was very

849
00:41:02,370 --> 00:40:59,530
important in that case that's the

850
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:02,380
strongest part of the hill case is that

851
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:04,690
the sessions were all conducted by dr.

852
00:41:08,730 --> 00:41:07,210
Benjamin Simon and you know some of the

853
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:08,740
myths that's going around is like he

854
00:41:14,549 --> 00:41:12,910
there was one session and he hypnotized

855
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:14,559
Betty and Barney together I've heard

856
00:41:18,660 --> 00:41:16,660
that that's nonsense they were each done

857
00:41:21,150 --> 00:41:18,670
separately they're each amnesia was

858
00:41:24,089 --> 00:41:21,160
induced after each session strong

859
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:24,099
careful control by a scientist who

860
00:41:28,589 --> 00:41:26,170
really knew what he was doing the army

861
00:41:32,789 --> 00:41:28,599
made a movie let there be light starring

862
00:41:36,180 --> 00:41:32,799
dr. Simon showing how he helped the war

863
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:36,190
veterans get back into society so to

864
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,130
speak and that's the most powerful thing

865
00:41:44,430 --> 00:41:41,200
about that case to me anyway I mean I'd

866
00:41:46,349 --> 00:41:44,440
met Betty and Barney fortunately I met

867
00:41:50,210 --> 00:41:46,359
Barney before he died I don't know how

868
00:41:54,359 --> 00:41:50,220
to meet after death some people do but

869
00:41:56,370 --> 00:41:54,369
but I was very impressed by that so I

870
00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:56,380
did go to that extent and as a matter of

871
00:42:01,740 --> 00:41:58,450
fact it was kind of strangers living in

872
00:42:03,569 --> 00:42:01,750
Pittsburgh and I've been on KDKA which

873
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:03,579
is a big 50,000 watt Clear Channel

874
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:05,530
station television and radio and so

875
00:42:12,059 --> 00:42:07,690
that's how I got my start going public

876
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:12,069
gun on UFOs I did some shows several

877
00:42:18,450 --> 00:42:16,240
times they called to tell me that Betty

878
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:18,460
and Barney were coming to town

879
00:42:22,620 --> 00:42:21,310
to do a television show and they let me

880
00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:22,630
know where they were staying

881
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:24,460
that's very unusual the station's

882
00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:25,930
normally don't give out that kind of

883
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,940
information so I was fortunate I had

884
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:29,760
dinner with them just the three of us

885
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:32,650
and that's when I had a chance to meet

886
00:42:38,339 --> 00:42:35,530
them talk to them listen see what I

887
00:42:40,050 --> 00:42:38,349
could how I would judge that and I was

888
00:42:42,030 --> 00:42:40,060
very favorably impressed and I was so

889
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:42,040
glad for that opportunity because Marnie

890
00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:45,849
died a few months later so I'm not an

891
00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:48,609
abduction researcher do I get a hard

892
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:51,820
time well I know that there are people

893
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:54,060
who say bad things behind my back

894
00:42:57,870 --> 00:42:56,290
somebody reported me today about

895
00:42:59,730 --> 00:42:57,880
somebody saying oh Friedman doesn't know

896
00:43:03,630 --> 00:42:59,740
what he was doing or he made that up for

897
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:03,640
something like that but let's face it in

898
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:05,890
over 700 lectures I've only had eleven

899
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:08,160
hecklers and two of them were drunk

900
00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:11,650
maybe even more yeah when the audience

901
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:15,430
took care of the rest of them so that I

902
00:43:20,130 --> 00:43:17,830
don't worry about it

903
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:20,140
my basic rule is have facts in hand

904
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,450
before putting mouth and gear and you

905
00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:24,400
know I've done debates formal debates

906
00:43:31,620 --> 00:43:27,430
hmm there's a DVD of me with James

907
00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:31,630
McGaha from here doing a debate at a

908
00:43:36,990 --> 00:43:34,750
university and I'd have anybody can look

909
00:43:38,579 --> 00:43:37,000
at that and see what make their own

910
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,589
choice but I've debated on a

911
00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:40,720
coast-to-coast radio for example yeah

912
00:43:46,589 --> 00:43:44,950
and with Seth Shostak I got 57% of the

913
00:43:48,030 --> 00:43:46,599
vote he got 33 percent and 10 percent

914
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:48,040
side I don't know

915
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:50,530
let's stop running that went right here

916
00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:57,010
at at yeah at Shostak I just want to say

917
00:44:03,089 --> 00:43:58,920
something going back to your star map

918
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:03,099
this star map yeah he said to me when I

919
00:44:06,359 --> 00:44:04,510
was talking to him one time that they

920
00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:06,369
actually pointed ceddy toward that

921
00:44:11,970 --> 00:44:08,200
direction well yeah that was one of

922
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:11,980
those crazy remarks what he said that

923
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:14,530
they had listened with the radio

924
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:18,010
telescope receiver so Zeta Reticuli and

925
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,810
they didn't hear anything what he didn't

926
00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:20,800
add was of course we haven't heard

927
00:44:24,570 --> 00:44:22,180
anything from any place that we've

928
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:24,580
listened to that's true hang on just one

929
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:27,250
second Travis has to go so we just want

930
00:44:32,380 --> 00:44:29,730
to say goodbye to Travis

931
00:44:35,590 --> 00:44:32,390
okay it's been nice to be with y'all and

932
00:44:39,050 --> 00:44:35,600
it's been an interesting conversation

933
00:44:41,530 --> 00:44:39,060
bye don't forget the movie yeah the

934
00:44:43,850 --> 00:44:41,540
movie yes hey well then with that and

935
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:43,860
Linda has to go to don't everyone leave

936
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:47,010
I can't be here alone is that movie

937
00:44:53,530 --> 00:44:50,010
going to be available to the public yes

938
00:44:57,140 --> 00:44:53,540
we do have copies of that for sale here

939
00:45:01,570 --> 00:44:57,150
at my table and they'll also be

940
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:01,580
available through on wings productions

941
00:45:06,590 --> 00:45:05,280
yes and Linda thank you so much and

942
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:06,600
we're gonna have you on the show pretty

943
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:08,150
soon I'll be getting in touch with you

944
00:45:17,330 --> 00:45:11,130
yes thank you it's wonderful being in

945
00:45:20,090 --> 00:45:17,340
the rarefied air of this UFO panel the

946
00:45:21,530 --> 00:45:20,100
air is very thin here and it was a

947
00:45:25,460 --> 00:45:21,540
pleasure and we'll speak again

948
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:25,470
thank you Robert we haven't uh we've

949
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:26,970
left you out of most of the conversation

950
00:45:33,140 --> 00:45:31,290
so I know that your book is on UFOs and

951
00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:33,150
have you ever looked into the this topic

952
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:37,230
that we're on right now in regards to

953
00:45:43,580 --> 00:45:40,410
abductions yes I have in fact it's in

954
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:43,590
it's in my book my science fiction book

955
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:47,610
call not because I think it's fiction I

956
00:45:56,060 --> 00:45:49,710
happen to be very lucky I was lecturing

957
00:45:58,430 --> 00:45:56,070
down in Roswell in 2005 and Gloria

958
00:46:01,370 --> 00:45:58,440
Hawker was one of the speakers and she

959
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:01,380
was an abductee and she needed a ride

960
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:03,060
back to Albuquerque because that's why I

961
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:05,250
was going back to catch my plane so I

962
00:46:10,490 --> 00:46:08,310
had two hours with her and I had a

963
00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:10,500
chance to pick her brain at the time I

964
00:46:15,010 --> 00:46:12,270
was in the middle of writing my second

965
00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:15,020
science fiction novel and I wanted to

966
00:46:21,980 --> 00:46:18,180
find out more about these implants

967
00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:21,990
because my character found out that it

968
00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:23,310
was determined that he had an implant

969
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:24,600
and I want to know what they look like

970
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:27,330
and things like that so so she gave me

971
00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:30,660
that information she also shared me

972
00:46:38,060 --> 00:46:33,150
might even be in a book which is called

973
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:38,070
Morning Glory that she had polio when

974
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:42,690
she was young and that she's now I don't

975
00:46:47,359 --> 00:46:43,680
know if she's old it's me

976
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:47,369
getting there people who have had polio

977
00:46:51,819 --> 00:46:49,290
my sister had it too and she was young

978
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:51,829
but people when they reach 60 or 70

979
00:46:56,660 --> 00:46:54,690
start getting reoccurrence of it and she

980
00:46:58,970 --> 00:46:56,670
was starting to have that problem and

981
00:47:02,480 --> 00:46:58,980
her daughter she recalls that she had to

982
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:02,490
wear a brace and her daughter was

983
00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:04,410
getting married the next day and she

984
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:06,660
happened to gay you get abducted that

985
00:47:15,290 --> 00:47:11,730
night and the the abductee questioner

986
00:47:18,049 --> 00:47:15,300
said Gloria you seemed very sad today

987
00:47:19,460 --> 00:47:18,059
why why what's what's wrong and she said

988
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:19,470
well my daughters getting married

989
00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:22,170
tomorrow and I have to go down the aisle

990
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:25,020
with this brace well the next morning

991
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:26,609
she gets up normally she keeps the brace

992
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,770
by the bed she gets up and she just

993
00:47:31,790 --> 00:47:30,240
walks out the door and forgets all about

994
00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:31,800
her brace and she doesn't need the brace

995
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:34,680
anymore and I was talking to a lady next

996
00:47:39,799 --> 00:47:37,170
next to me at my table today she's also

997
00:47:42,829 --> 00:47:39,809
an abductee and she said that she knew

998
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:42,839
several cases where people who have been

999
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:46,650
abducted have been helped by that

1000
00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:51,390
process and maybe maybe unfortunately I

1001
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:53,670
don't know if you can elaborate on that

1002
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:56,160
you know other cases where people have

1003
00:48:07,849 --> 00:48:00,660
been helped by abductees yes I do in

1004
00:48:11,359 --> 00:48:07,859
fact yes by by a tease yes Barbara Lam

1005
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:11,369
has quite a list of experiences that she

1006
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:15,170
has worked with who she will talk about

1007
00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:19,200
have been healed and unaware of people

1008
00:48:30,980 --> 00:48:25,079
who have had really pernicious forms of

1009
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:30,990
cancer where they have had an 80 contact

1010
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:35,040
experience and been healed quite

1011
00:48:44,589 --> 00:48:39,119
remarkable that this happens yeah

1012
00:48:49,420 --> 00:48:44,599
Kathy and I I may call you Kathy yeah I

1013
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:49,430
was I was up at the experiencer speak in

1014
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:52,319
Gorham Maine was held three years ago or

1015
00:48:57,140 --> 00:48:55,530
so and I believe you talked about your

1016
00:48:57,530 --> 00:48:57,150
own experience is that something you'd

1017
00:49:01,040 --> 00:48:57,540
be will

1018
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:01,050
to talk about on the show yes and and

1019
00:49:06,590 --> 00:49:04,050
actually that was last September was it

1020
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:06,600
last it was just last September that I

1021
00:49:12,170 --> 00:49:09,810
ever I mean let me let me let me just

1022
00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:12,180
say did you sort of hint at it before

1023
00:49:15,850 --> 00:49:13,800
because they're not going to tell you

1024
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:15,860
why because I was up there and they said

1025
00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:18,090
some people came out and they said I

1026
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:21,480
think Kathy Martin has been abducted

1027
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:24,240
this was in Gorham three years must be

1028
00:49:30,290 --> 00:49:27,150
something that I said you wanted answers

1029
00:49:35,060 --> 00:49:30,300
we've but I I have never spoken publicly

1030
00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:35,070
okay about this all right until last

1031
00:49:40,130 --> 00:49:38,310
September okay and I mentioned it for

1032
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:40,140
the first time on a radio show a couple

1033
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,910
of weeks ago so I'm not breaking this

1034
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:43,440
for the first time not for the first

1035
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:49,650
okay oh he got me again okay so can you

1036
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:52,290
can you tell us what what your

1037
00:49:57,950 --> 00:49:53,970
experience yes well this has been very

1038
00:50:02,140 --> 00:49:57,960
perplexing and you might know this about

1039
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,150
me but I'm a natural skeptic and it's

1040
00:50:09,290 --> 00:50:05,040
been very difficult for me to even

1041
00:50:12,860 --> 00:50:09,300
convince myself that this was real even

1042
00:50:15,230 --> 00:50:12,870
though there were witnesses there was

1043
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:15,240
another person with me well at the time

1044
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:18,450
I've always attempted to find some kind

1045
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:20,370
of rational explanation

1046
00:50:25,070 --> 00:50:23,250
it wouldn't be Denise know it was my

1047
00:50:29,810 --> 00:50:25,080
mother your mother and this dates back

1048
00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:29,820
to 1966 oh wow and what happened is that

1049
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:33,540
my Aunt Betty Hill was taking part in

1050
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:36,810
what they could scientific team called a

1051
00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:39,270
psycho physics experiment it was really

1052
00:50:47,060 --> 00:50:42,390
a ce-5 experiment to try to call in a

1053
00:50:50,300 --> 00:50:47,070
craft and they actually gave her script

1054
00:50:52,820 --> 00:50:50,310
and she at the same time every night

1055
00:50:57,290 --> 00:50:52,830
would attempt to send a telepathic

1056
00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:57,300
message to the ETS who had taken her to

1057
00:51:03,110 --> 00:51:00,420
ask them to show themselves in a certain

1058
00:51:06,620 --> 00:51:03,120
location or to land in a certain

1059
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:06,630
location and so one of those locations

1060
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:10,410
was my grandparents farm now I didn't

1061
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:10,890
know this

1062
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:13,529
going on at the time the family hadn't

1063
00:51:17,509 --> 00:51:15,510
told me you had no idea that I had no

1064
00:51:19,220 --> 00:51:17,519
idea this was that Maddie was doing this

1065
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:19,230
experiment mm-hmm

1066
00:51:28,279 --> 00:51:23,010
but I grew up across the street from my

1067
00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:28,289
grandparents farm and in 1966 April of

1068
00:51:37,549 --> 00:51:35,700
66 there was a landing and one of our

1069
00:51:41,450 --> 00:51:37,559
neighbors who was a commercial pilot

1070
00:51:44,420 --> 00:51:41,460
returning home from work saw the UFO

1071
00:51:48,109 --> 00:51:44,430
coming down and two-on-two my

1072
00:51:50,930 --> 00:51:48,119
grandparents land it woke my grandmother

1073
00:51:54,019 --> 00:51:50,940
up and she looked out the window and saw

1074
00:51:56,690 --> 00:51:54,029
it coming in she was terribly frightened

1075
00:52:03,170 --> 00:51:56,700
at that point she woke my grandfather up

1076
00:52:10,220 --> 00:52:03,180
and he also saw it and that was about it

1077
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:10,230
they heard knocks on the door they're

1078
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:13,200
polite then like yeah well what Betty

1079
00:52:19,809 --> 00:52:16,079
has said was knock on the door and

1080
00:52:24,019 --> 00:52:19,819
you'll be invited in and my grandmother

1081
00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:24,029
remembered that part of it it wanted

1082
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:27,180
nothing to do with it at that time well

1083
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:29,609
in in the years that I would discuss

1084
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:34,650
that with Betty I would say to her why

1085
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:39,119
do you think they landed and now why

1086
00:52:42,980 --> 00:52:40,890
would they just come in and land and and

1087
00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:42,990
they left physical trace evidence on the

1088
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,160
ground they sheared off some trees trees

1089
00:52:54,499 --> 00:52:49,440
were sort of splayed out in a circle

1090
00:52:57,620 --> 00:52:54,509
well around where this came in there the

1091
00:52:59,329 --> 00:52:57,630
the bark was curled on the trees they

1092
00:53:03,650 --> 00:52:59,339
were shared some of them were sheared up

1093
00:53:05,210 --> 00:53:03,660
and so I said you know you don't think

1094
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:05,220
they were just setting down for a coffee

1095
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:10,650
break do you what was going on and I was

1096
00:53:16,279 --> 00:53:13,440
so curious because at some point and I

1097
00:53:19,579 --> 00:53:16,289
knew that my mother and I had had the

1098
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:19,589
same memory of finding ourselves on a

1099
00:53:24,140 --> 00:53:23,160
craft I was on a table on an examining

1100
00:53:25,940 --> 00:53:24,150
table

1101
00:53:28,460 --> 00:53:25,950
undergoing this exam which was

1102
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:28,470
horrifying to me something else I'd

1103
00:53:34,579 --> 00:53:31,920
never put together - is that in that

1104
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:34,589
same time frame we started to have

1105
00:53:41,569 --> 00:53:37,170
paranormal experiences in my childhood

1106
00:53:45,250 --> 00:53:41,579
home light orbs that appeared to be

1107
00:53:50,059 --> 00:53:45,260
intelligently controlled moving around

1108
00:53:53,269 --> 00:53:50,069
also poltergeist type activity and we

1109
00:53:56,809 --> 00:53:53,279
had never had that in the home before

1110
00:54:00,319 --> 00:53:56,819
that point and so after years of

1111
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:00,329
research I finally put all of this

1112
00:54:08,210 --> 00:54:05,250
together in my 2012 questionnaire but my

1113
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:08,220
commonalities study which you can read

1114
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:12,319
on my website at Kathleen - Mardon

1115
00:54:20,269 --> 00:54:16,529
dot-com and it's also I talked about it

1116
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:20,279
in the book that Denise and stoner and I

1117
00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:24,569
did the alien abduction files I found

1118
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:26,460
out that I had all of these

1119
00:54:33,019 --> 00:54:31,200
commonalities that Denise had and I had

1120
00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:33,029
you know I had memories I had missing

1121
00:54:40,039 --> 00:54:35,730
time at one point when I was riding in a

1122
00:54:42,260 --> 00:54:40,049
vehicle and wanted just to write it off

1123
00:54:44,750 --> 00:54:42,270
as being something else I never wanted

1124
00:54:47,210 --> 00:54:44,760
because I have to say I was in denial

1125
00:54:51,230 --> 00:54:47,220
but at the same time I was suffering

1126
00:54:55,010 --> 00:54:51,240
trauma after some of these experiences

1127
00:54:58,039 --> 00:54:55,020
where I wasn't able to fall asleep at

1128
00:55:00,349 --> 00:54:58,049
night I felt fearful I had the classic

1129
00:55:01,970 --> 00:55:00,359
symptoms but I was always trying to

1130
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:01,980
explain it as something else

1131
00:55:09,289 --> 00:55:04,650
mm-hmm and finally I came to the point

1132
00:55:12,490 --> 00:55:09,299
where I said no I I can't deny this any

1133
00:55:16,039 --> 00:55:12,500
longer my mother and I had this memory

1134
00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:16,049
you know these things did happen in my

1135
00:55:21,740 --> 00:55:19,049
life I talked to other family members

1136
00:55:24,410 --> 00:55:21,750
who told me they also had real these

1137
00:55:26,269 --> 00:55:24,420
memories so it's really every part of

1138
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:26,279
your family then that mean your aren't

1139
00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:30,480
to begin to begin with her or earlier

1140
00:55:37,359 --> 00:55:32,760
would you say probably to begin with